Should CL_'s and returning winners be allowed to compete in the ride competition? One, both, none, why? Perhaps just not allowed to win? Post your opinion and why :)

Doc :11:

P.S. If you are a returning winner or CL please state your opinion, as there are few of you and many not CL/winners.

I'd say both CL_s and returning winners should be allowed to compete. CL_s don't have any advantages. Staff do not play favorites. In fact, returning winners should inspire other contestants to work twice as hard to get a great ride.

As in every other case, CL_s are normal players, too. They don't have any special advantages in competitions, either.

~Oranges

Well, YES, CL's should be able to win. They are normal players with the same advantages as any other player with a title or still labeled a guest.

As for people who have already won...I could see a point there. I have won one ride competition and I could understand if we had to wait like 6 months (Or 3 ride competitions later) until we could win again.

But I assume this starts to get hard for people to track. What if you wanted to make a great ride team...but ONE of the team-mates had won before? Would you tell that person..possible best friend...that they CAN NOT be on your team?

It does start to get tough. But as stated above:

In fact, returning winners should inspire other contestants to work twice as hard to get a great ride.

;)

CL_'s are normal players, why wouldn't they be allowed in?

As for returning winners, I say no. Maybe have a special category for them, but they can't win another top ten pin.

I agree with what you said about CL's, but I don't think Returning winners should not be allowed (at least to win) because they have been givin their chance to win the big prize. If people are like me I think they will be just as inspired to do well because there are many people who are great designers that did not win before. If you slack off you are very unlikely to win anything more than the participation prize.

Doc :11:

Everybody should be allowed to compete and to win as many times as he or she deserves! Why punish someone for being good at something?

Are you suggesting Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods not be allowed to compete in their respective sports?

Of course CL_ should be able to participate!

As for the returning winners, you got a prize for winning. They can still enter but if they win again maybe give them something else? Like a VIP Ride Competition Pin or something.

Everybody should be allowed to compete and to win as many times as he or she deserves! Why punish someone for being good at something?

Are you suggesting Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods not be allowed to compete in their respective sports?

Ok...nice point. I guess many people here are thinking along the lines of like Podcast competitions or Radio Competitions that keep track of those who won and DO have a limit on how many times one can win.

This definitly makes for good discussion.

As for people who have already won...I could see a point there. I have won one ride competition and I could understand if we had to wait like 6 months (Or 3 ride competitions later) until we could win again.

But I assume this starts to get hard for people to track. What if you wanted to make a great ride team...but ONE of the team-mates had won before? Would you tell that person..possible best friend...that they CAN NOT be on your team?
;)

That was what I was thinking of for the individual competitions. One previous winner does not make a ride stand out as much in a group, but if they were by themselves it would make a world of difference. Maybe something to try for this competition?

As the comparison between Tiger Woods and Golf and Returning winners and The Ride comps, I think that ride competitions are not a career that gives financial benifit to the winner. Also people watch golf on T.V. or buy tickets to go watch it, they pay for it/watch the commercials because they want to see their favorite win. Its just a bunch of us players trying to make a ride, and there is no VMKride T.V.

Doc :11:

Who siad CL_ couldn't compete. there regular players like everyone, so they can join too! Plus they make great ideas! And yeah, what Neoteny said...

CL_ are just like everyone else except they have a CL_ in front of their name, can be friends with staff and have a nifty badge.
But they are players so they should be alowed to be in the competition.
CL_'s that are in the competition have a wonderful opertunity explaining to new players what a Virtual Ride Competition is :D
Returning winners should be alowed to compete too.
~Chaelle

I think both Community Leaders and returning winners should both be able to win, because as already stated Community Leaders are regular players. The only thing that singles them out is their titles and badges. Everyone has as good of a chance as a CL_.

Returning winners in my opinion should also be able to enter the competition. Because they have won before, does not mean that they could win again. There are always those that did not enter the previous ride competition, and new players. Experience wise, they do have an advantage. Wouldn't it feel great to get a higher score than someone that has already won?

I think that we have generally established that CL's should be allowed to be in the ride competition. What about returning players?

Doc

*Edit* Poll http://www.vmkforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88917

As a 2-time previous winner, I say let everyone compete. You get a finer quality of ride that way. Encourages friendly competition. I have seen some very creative rides from first time players who were not CLs.

Everybody should be allowed to compete and to win as many times as he or she deserves! Why punish someone for being good at something?


Are you suggesting Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods not be allowed to compete in their respective sports?


Competition makes the rides better. If there was only one burger joint to choose from in the world, or only one place to shop, service is bad, and quality low. If you restrict the people who can enter as to only those who have not yet won, well, you can see where I'm going. It makes it so other people won't work as hard to win. Not all people would be like this, of course, but in general this could happen.

Neoteny summed up my feelings on the matter. :)

I posted a response on the other fan site, to this same question, but I will reply here as well.
CL's are no different than any other player, other than we can be called upon to answer questions of other players. That's all a CL is. Yes, CL's should be allowed to play the game. This would include any competitions.
Previous winners should also be allowed to compete. They make us all strive to be better at whatever we attempt. This would almost be like saying NaviMap should not be allowed to play fireworks, because he's already won. Is there any logic to that? I used the Tiger Woods analogy in my other post, but I stand by it. Golf is just another game, after all.

Everybody should be allowed to compete and to win as many times as he or she deserves! Why punish someone for being good at something?

Are you suggesting Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods not be allowed to compete in their respective sports?

Golf is not a sport. ;) My opinion.


Anywho, I'm a returning champion, I think I should be allowed.

If someone wants to put in the credits, time and creativity - by all means, let everyone participate in this competition! It's not like the past winners are using the exact same tactics (as you would maybe do to get high scores in mini games) to earn the Top Ten pin.

This is similar to letting players win the Best Guest Room/Game/Quest pin more than once. If they have that creativity and capabilities to host a great room, they shouldn't be punished by being limited in prizes and winning.

That would be really unfair to Community Leaders if they couldn't participate. What's special about them that makes them uneligible? That's lke punishing someone for helping other people.

As for returning winners, I agree with Wendot. There is no special advantage that the previous winners have over anyone. they have great ideas and a lot of time and credits, and anyone who hasn't won can still have those things. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is also nothing special about returning winners except that they have won a prize before. You can have a better idea than them, or they can have a better idea. Their/your past doesn't affect that.

We need a Debate group, sorta like rants.

I see what you mean, but there would be a lot of problems. Everyone says the staff isn't favorist, but most of the winners, are CLs, and that is because sometimes staff like to visit CLs, and if a CL is in his/her guest room and it's good, they'll judge, and it's kind of like a staff visit w/o 3 red mickeys.
But this problem will not occur with ride, because each staff will go to every room.

ok, well Im a CL_ and a top-ten winner.

me and my friends all made 1 team. yes we worked hard but we also had tons of fun. so, if we cannot participate ( sp ) in a competition, how fun is that?

CL_'s are normal like us they have no special poofing powers and can be as broke as -0000000000 credits LOL. So both should be aloud :)

I think both groups should be allowed to win because
A= CL's have no advantage over other players, they're just like you and me except the can help staff a little bit more
B= Returning winners are ok to win again! It's not like you win one award and your done..

What's this about CL's? What have they done? Honestly, non-leaders and leaders have one thing in common: they are all players. CL's have no advantage. If anything they have a disadvantage because people think they do have an advantage (if that made any sense).

Is it fair to tell people who have won a game at fireworks that they can no longer play? No.

I could think of a lot more examples, and if you want them, I'd be happy to provide them. My point is, it's not fair to those people who won before to be told they can't do it anymore. Besides, just because someone won once before does not mean they'll win again. That, and, groups change.

A lot of people in this game want to make the game "fair", yet I see so many people in the process of making the game "fair" make it even more unfair then it was before.

Everyone (excluding staff, because, after all, they are paid to do what they do) should be able to enter regardless if they have CL_ in front of their names and a badge or if they have won before.

-Toashtee

Everybody should be allowed to compete. CL, previous winner, everybody. Now, if VMK used a scoring rubric that awarded some extra points for 'Not a previous winner' to give those an edge, that is within their rights to do. As a CL, I would give up the chance to compete in order to volunteer during the competition, maybe for a Gold Star or Host Pin. If this offer was made, I think I'd take it. Since the competition seems to be individual rather than team, there may be an awful lot more rides to check.

My vote? All play!

Yes, CL_'s should definetly compete. Same for returning winners. Don't make people suffer just because their good at something. You would not like it if staff said after you win an award, you're never aloud to makea guest roo again.Everybody should be allowed to compete and to win as many times as he or she deserves! Why punish someone for being good at something?

Are you suggesting Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods not be allowed to compete in their respective sports? I love how you put things.

leaders get an unfair advantage. w/ staff on their list, they will for sre get judged, and win best game/quest/guest often, as well as push trivia. i would have to say no.

leaders get an unfair advantage. w/ staff on their list, they will for sre get judged, and win best game/quest/guest often, as well as push trivia. i would have to say no.
We just have to have faith in what we're told: Ride judging will be fair, and trivia winners will be selected at random.

We just have to have faith in what we're told: Ride judging will be fair, and trivia winners will be selected at random.
im really fuzzy on that. Ever noticed staff only go in rooms with queues, and only talk in 'interesting rooms' for example, a hotel or trade room, they almost never talk in.

im really fuzzy on that. Ever noticed staff only go in rooms with queues, and only talk in 'interesting rooms' for example, a hotel or trade room, they almost never talk in.
Well, if a room isn't "interesting," should it deserve to win an award?

I see what you mean, but there would be a lot of problems. Everyone says the staff isn't favorist, but most of the winners, are CLs, and that is because sometimes staff like to visit CLs, and if a CL is in his/her guest room and it's good, they'll judge, and it's kind of like a staff visit w/o 3 red mickeys.
But this problem will not occur with ride, because each staff will go to every room.

You can't say most of the winners are CLs. They are normal players, they have no special priveleges. Hosts judge the rooms, and Hosts WILL NOT go into your room just because you ask. Believe me, I tried. Many times.

And staff visit plenty of times with out red mickeys. Have you ever looked at the pictures on the Newsletter? Usually the rooms are not full. Mocha said she likes to go around to Guest Rooms with interesting titles. Perhaps she passes on interesting ones to Hosts..?

CLs have no extra powers that should disqualify them from this competition.

Everybody should be allowed to compete and to win as many times as he or she deserves! Why punish someone for being good at something?

Are you suggesting Lance Armstrong and Tiger Woods not be allowed to compete in their respective sports?

Good point Neoteny. Competition fosters improvement in skills and gives people a goal to shoot for. With out the winners I would not be as motivated to compete.


Inferno!

Mocha said she likes to go around to Guest Rooms with interesting titles.
This is why trade rooms and "girls pick boys" rooms generally don't win the awards.

Also, if you are running a quest, put the word "quest" somewhere in the name of your room. The competition for Best Quest is not as strong as those as for the other two room awards, and you want the judges to know you have a quest room.

Also, apparently if your name is Exoxus, you are ineligible to win an award. I don't know whay this is, but it just seems to work out that way. ;)

(We love you, Ex!)

Well, if CL_Reebee named his room for example "Tree" or "Cool Room" or even "Mickey Trees put in a stack together" nobody would come into his room, unless s/he was really bored. Not even a staff would go in, although he is a CL.

You can't say most of the winners are CLs. They are normal players, they have no special priveleges. Hosts judge the rooms, and Hosts WILL NOT go into your room just because you ask. Believe me, I tried. Many times.

And staff visit plenty of times with out red mickeys. Have you ever looked at the pictures on the Newsletter? Usually the rooms are not full. Mocha said she likes to go around to Guest Rooms with interesting titles. Perhaps she passes on interesting ones to Hosts..?

CLs have no extra powers that should disqualify them from this competition.

Yeah, my room wasn't full when Mocha came in. The title was Twisty, the Magical Mystery, now that is strange, right?

But, you guys do have a point, the winners should be allowed but, in a Special compitition.

like ive said before in another thread, if ppl think that they can win again they should have the right to play again! Staff picks who diserves to win and if ppl have put alot of work into it many credits (the first ride canttest i was in (also grand prize team) was over 100,000 credits all together probably 200,000 credits and then the next team i was on we spent around 150,000-200,000 and we were a runner up so if ppl spend alot of credits and time they diserve to win or get reconized for their hard work!

As for CL_'s not being able to enter they are just like other ppl. They have no power like staff the only differeces between them and us are:

they have CL_ in front of their tritle
they have a leader badge
they can be friends with staff (but that does not mean staff have favorites just bc they are on their list in the first contest, we had 2 staff i believe look at our room so their are not a person chosing favorites)

those are my reasons

yo i think returning winner have to be in a special competiton and play against the best bc not fair to go against rookies or ppl who lost the first time but want to try again

Since this competition is individual, it should change the playing field - instead of a bunch of people on a team but only one person 'directing' it and telling everyone else what to do, it's all one player, judging just them and not everyone else.

So some people who may have been on a team in the past might not actually do as well as they think they will.

why debate something that is going to happen? VMK will never exclude cls or other winners. they never did and never will. if you arent winning its because your rooms are ugly. design better and you might win. dont complain. case closed.

YES!

Cl's: It is not fair, they don't earn more credits than us or get free stuff or have advantages of winning. So they should be able.

Former Winner: Yes, this is a SINGLE RIDE COMPETITON! This means that only ONE person creates the ride instead of a team. So yes, they can't force people to not compete.

why debate something that is going to happen? VMK will never exclude cls or other winners. they never did and never will. if you arent winning its because your rooms are ugly. design better and you might win. dont complain. case closed.

LOL! Thank you for telling me I build ugly rooms! Haha! Just kidding, of course. One never knows why staff chooses any one particular room over another to win. I'm sure they have more than one room to choose from each week, which makes it quite difficult to pick just one winner, maybe two.
Keep trying! I can't stress this enough! It doesn't matter how popular your room is, just that it's a unique and interesting design. Make the best room you can, for yourself! Don't build for staff, nobody knows what they will like. If you don't win, keep trying!
Should previous winners be allowed to compete? Of course! Why not? Doesn't having some stiff competition make you design an even better room? There are a lot of amazing rooms in vmk. Have you seen them? Could you choose only one each week? I couldn't.

LOL! Thank you for telling me I build ugly rooms! Haha! Just kidding, of course. One never knows why staff chooses any one particular room over another to win. I'm sure they have more than one room to choose from each week, which makes it quite difficult to pick just one winner, maybe two.
Keep trying! I can't stress this enough! It doesn't matter how popular your room is, just that it's a unique and interesting design. Make the best room you can, for yourself! Don't build for staff, nobody knows what they will like. If you don't win, keep trying!
Should previous winners be allowed to compete? Of course! Why not? Doesn't having some stiff competition make you design an even better room? There are a lot of amazing rooms in vmk. Have you seen them? Could you choose only one each week? I couldn't.

LOL Mimi not you. I mean the cry babies :)

yo i think returning winner have to be in a special competiton and play against the best bc not fair to go against rookies or ppl who lost the first time but want to try again
i like the first part of this about the past winners go against each other but i dont like where the winners cant play against other ppl or what you call rookies everybody has a fair chance of winning you need to put alot of time in rides not just a day and say ok im done! or even a weak!

ok how about this fix this. Past winners against each others and another for the people who haven't won that way people who haven't have a chance to win. I see to many people lose bc past winners past them up. Let new people have the lime light vmk! we need new winners! also people do try hard in these competitions heck when i was in everest i spent over 10,000 credits on crates and track and winning over 100 pieces of ice was a challange but i missed the last so i can't comment there.

But look at it this way Past winners know how to win the staff (not by favretisim but by what staff is looking for) and we need new people to try and be the winner and not have past winners taking it from them.

In the winner comp. we could have them compete against each other and the winner could get like the same prize as the person in the not winner yet comp. kinda makes sense this way and no i am not a cry baby and no my rooms do not look bad i had people tell me most of mine are themed pretty good. good day now

i agrree a to that but if winners go against each other it should have a bigger prizes bc they have to work even harder

First let me say that when a community leader tells you they don't get any advantages they are like politician telling you they don't take bribes and kickbacks. You hope its true but mostly its not.

Second, ride competitions are very fairly done here, all the rooms are judged and have a fair chance to show what they want. There is no favoritism there and no leader should be restricted from participating.

Third, when it comes to weekly best room competitions there is an uneven playing field. Leaders as a percentage of the regularly playing population make up a small part but they average 1 out of 3 and some weeks 2 out of 3 of the room prizes. You can't convince me that a group that makes up less than 5% can take home 33-66%+ of the room prizes and that be fair. Community leaders have greater access to hosts and can attract them to their rooms better than the rest of us. Any leader that disagrees is plain out wrong. On any given day I am in rooms with CLs, and Hosts come in to say "hi" and visit. They are on the leaders list and can see the rooms with great ease. I recently spoke to Mocha in V_MK central and during our conversation we were interupted by a community leader asking her to come with him to see his room and she just went, right in mid sentence. I sure cant do that, can you? There are many other possible mechanisms for favoritism and since I have been here since almost day 1, I have seen many of them for myself.

Sorry that the truth bothers you and I realize its hard to agree if you are not one of the guilty ones but this is happening and its important to realize that its not the impropriety but the appearance of impropriety that brings about the anger and frustration you are all hearing from the other posts here. Perhaps its time to set some firm rules and guidelines to avoid any future problems.

why debate something that is going to happen? VMK will never exclude cls or other winners. they never did and never will. if you arent winning its because your rooms are ugly. design better and you might win. dont complain. case closed.
what is yavn sees and gets ideas? may i remind you that someone here on the forums actually designed the new staff outfits! staff do look at a lot of sites, and uses a lot of ideas. besides, they never said that everyone could be in it...

Im with what goofy said. If a staff comes in to judge "legoboy" (not a real name that I know of, just making it up on the spot) and he has a great room, the staff will have to pick between him and CL_whoever, who do you think the staff will pick? If someone has established themselves as a great designer before, do we really need to be reminded if it time after time? They are given outrageous prizes that I feel do not reflect how much "better" their rooms look. Should they be allowed to win once? for sure. Win 5 times? definately not. Staff should atleast ask them to take a breather for one competition. Just my 2 cents,

Doc :17:

Im with what goofy said. If a staff comes in to judge "legoboy" (not a real name that I know of, just making it up on the spot) and he has a great room, the staff will have to pick between him and CL_whoever, who do you think the staff will pick? If someone has established themselves as a great designer before, do we really need to be reminded if it time after time? They are given outrageous prizes that I feel do not reflect how much "better" their rooms look. Should they be allowed to win once? for sure. Win 5 times? definately not. Staff should atleast ask them to take a breather for one competition. Just my 2 cents,

Doc :17:
and you can double that to four, because I agree with you all the way.

First let me say that when a community leader tells you they don't get any advantages they are like politician telling you they don't take bribes and kickbacks. You hope its true but mostly its not.

Second, ride competitions are very fairly done here, all the rooms are judged and have a fair chance to show what they want. There is no favoritism there and no leader should be restricted from participating.

Third, when it comes to weekly best room competitions there is an uneven playing field. Leaders as a percentage of the regularly playing population make up a small part but they average 1 out of 3 and some weeks 2 out of 3 of the room prizes. You can't convince me that a group that makes up less than 5% can take home 33-66%+ of the room prizes and that be fair. Community leaders have greater access to hosts and can attract them to their rooms better than the rest of us. Any leader that disagrees is plain out wrong. On any given day I am in rooms with CLs, and Hosts come in to say "hi" and visit. They are on the leaders list and can see the rooms with great ease. I recently spoke to Mocha in V_MK central and during our conversation we were interupted by a community leader asking her to come with him to see his room and she just went, right in mid sentence. I sure cant do that, can you? There are many other possible mechanisms for favoritism and since I have been here since almost day 1, I have seen many of them for myself.

Sorry that the truth bothers you and I realize its hard to agree if you are not one of the guilty ones but this is happening and its important to realize that its not the impropriety but the appearance of impropriety that brings about the anger and frustration you are all hearing from the other posts here. Perhaps its time to set some firm rules and guidelines to avoid any future problems.

You must work for the government. Only they can come up with percentages without factoring in *any* variables and without knowing how many actual CL's and other players there are on VMK.
Figures are not facts. Anyone can manipulate numbers to their advantage. Let's be fair. You have no proof that CL's make up only 5% of the vmk population. You don't know how many players are mules of other characters, which will greatly skew your numbers. You don't know how many players are room designers. Your numbers are misleading.

I think goofy is actually being quite liberal with his 5% estimate.

I think goofy is actually being quite liberal with his 5% estimate.
You're still all just guessing. You state numbers as though they were facts, but you really have no idea.

Im with what goofy said. If a staff comes in to judge "legoboy" (not a real name that I know of, just making it up on the spot) and he has a great room, the staff will have to pick between him and CL_whoever, who do you think the staff will pick? If someone has established themselves as a great designer before, do we really need to be reminded if it time after time? They are given outrageous prizes that I feel do not reflect how much "better" their rooms look. Should they be allowed to win once? for sure. Win 5 times? definately not. Staff should atleast ask them to take a breather for one competition. Just my 2 cents,

Doc :17:

I have never won a award they usually pick normal players more than leaders.

I have never won a award they usually pick normal players more than leaders.
I think they usually pick rooms which deserve to win.

Not everybody can win; there are only a few each week. Just keep trying!

I think it's ok as long as winners from past competitions can't win again. It's hard for other people to earn a top ten. If they had their own special catergory then that would be fine. It's no fun to lose ride competitions to the same people are winning it over and over again.

i feel like there are more players than CL's, but the CL's always win more!

Well, As a member of the Grand prize winner in the Yeti Competition. I know I can build rides and also build quests. I have had alot of people tell me. My rooms were at times 3 red mickeys when I ran them. But in all that I have never had a host enter anything I've made. Except when they had to enter my room on the Yeti competition.
IF anyone on VMK knows me they can support me on this.
I don't have a CL infront of my title and I feel that I am loosing out on being judged for any of the room, ride and quest pins that are now being passed out.
You see being a CL does mean something. You get people who want to be your friends because they thing they might get somthing out of it. It's true!!
Deep down everyone want to hang out with someone important. So, everyone will appear in your room and poof a host appears and gives out a pin.

Now, I don't know if any or all CL's have a host as a friend. I won't guess because I don't know. But I would like to find out. So, my question is to all CL_s do any of you have a host as a friend and do you or have you contact them when you have a room, ride or quest going on??


Nemo