A short note before I begin: Since a fair amount of you here seem rather open-minded and respectful, I will say that this applies more to other fan sites I've posted it on than it does this one. However, I'm not saying that I haven't seen this once or twice here, either.

Also before I start, let me say that this thread is more about how a lot of the pro-closing people (But not all, mind you. There's still a fair amount of you who are able to go about this in a respectful manner) have been acting. So, you can go "OMG JUST A GAME GET OVER IT" if you please, but all you're doing is showing you haven't read the WHOLE thread, and have nothing new to say anyway.

Not all of these questions will apply to everyone. I try to make it as specific as possible as to who I'm addressing in each question.

Secondly, as rhetorical as these questions may seem, this has come to the point where I've become genuinely curious as to whether or not this is what some people believe. Please, I ask you to treat them as serious questions, and answer them accordingly and without trying to skirt around the question by giving some half-baked answer about how there's been a lot of people addicted to this game and, due to VMK's closure, they can all go back to the real world.

Now then, let us begin.

So, something I hear a lot: "It's just a game." Not, "In my opinion, it's just a game..." nor "Personally, I think it's just a game." In other words, I hear a lot of people state this as fact, not opinion. If this has ever been you, let me ask you all something: Do you think yourselves some sort of almighty beings, who's very word is universal law? May I ask what status you believe you hold where you believe your word and your word alone is what defines an object? Were I to argue, mayhaps, that Disney movies inspired me to believe in miracles, and you were to argue "OMG THEY'RE NOT INSPIRATIONS THEY'RE CARTOONS," am I to take this as truth, and without argument?

Another question: Have any of you ever made a game before? Do you know how much time and effort it takes, how much of your very heart and soul you need to pour into your work to make a good game? If you've ever said "Why don't you just appreciate the memories you had, and move on" while still clinging to the above opinion that it's just a game, do YOU appreciate how much time, work, and artistic vision the developers put into the game, despite the fact that you refuse to acknowledge it as art, inspiration, and a place where people made many friends?

If you've said (as fact, not opinion), VMK was "Just a game" or "Just pixels," does this mean that, following the same train of logic, the Mona Lisa was just paint on a canvas, the Thinker was just a rock with a few niches in it, and Beethoven's Ode to Joy just noise?

Finally, if you've ever told... no, ORDERED people to simply "move on," or, even better, "Shut up!" or "Give up!", do you consider yourself above the First Amendment that the Forefathers of America so masterfully crafted and upheld? Do you consider your own voice so great and almighty, it has the right to silence others? Do you honestly believe that you have the right to tell people how you live their lives just because you don't agree with how they live it now, despite the fact that it doesn't affect you greatly in any way?

Please, I ask that you answer quickly. These questions have held my curiosity for a long time, and I'm anxious to see what your opinions (Or should I say "Almighty and final judgment?") on these matters are.

I agree %100. Some people have been living with their eyes half open.

Very Well Written LordIllidan! I agree 100, no wait 200% with you. I mean you are right, some people are stating their opinions like its the last say on the whole thing.

I agree with everything but one. I have never made a game(okay those little games to keep two year olds entertained in the car for two hours doesn't really count), nor do I apreciate teh time and effort the creators put in to it. I know that may sound extremely selfish, but I honestly don't. I know the creators did what they did(not tell us the complete truth why vmk closed) to keep their job, but you think just one, just one, who cared about us all would care enough would tell us the real reason, or even if they wanted to keep their job go on a site and anonomously tell the real reason. Honestly the last six months I noticed the staff didn't act like they cared/care about us, they took their job as babysitting. In retrospect it sort of was, its sort of hard to explain the difference of how they treated us. It's hard to appreciate what they did for you when they, the castmembers at a disney park, treated their job like an ordinary job. I am sure when I get over the "anger phase" of vmk closing I will be more appreciative but until then I will apreciate vmk for helping others through rough times.

I agree with everything but one. I have never made a game(okay those little games to keep two year olds entertained in the car for two hours doesn't really count), nor do I apreciate teh time and effort the creators put in to it. I know that may sound extremely selfish, but I honestly don't. I know the creators did what they did(not tell us the complete truth why vmk closed) to keep their job, but you think just one, just one, who cared about us all would care enough would tell us the real reason, or even if they wanted to keep their job go on a site and anonomously tell the real reason. Honestly the last six months I noticed the staff didn't act like they cared/care about us, they took their job as babysitting. In retrospect it sort of was, its sort of hard to explain the difference of how they treated us. It's hard to appreciate what they did for you when they, the castmembers at a disney park, treated their job like an ordinary job. I am sure when I get over the "anger phase" of vmk closing I will be more appreciative but until then I will apreciate vmk for helping others through rough times.

Aye, I see what you're trying to get at here. Personally, I still think it's the big execs and not the actual dev team to blame, for the following reasons:

1) Judging by how Disney treats the games themselves, I doubt the big execs care enough about their dev teams to actually tell them the reason (Other than Seth Mendelsohn/Yavn, assuming he didn't leave VMK when some people think he did. But he's most likely under some sort of contract [or surveillance :P] to make sure he doesn't tell.) For all we know, they're in the same boat as staff: They were just told one day "Oh, by the way, pack up all the stuff in your office, we're shutting down your project." Heck, they may have even been fed the same "50th promotion" lie we were.

2)Assuming they did know, they are all probably under some sort of contract so they can't tell. After all, VMK more likely than not closed down because of money, right? Think of all the business they'd lose if one of their OWN STAFF leaked out that the big execs were spreading lies! And, again, said execs probably don't care much for their dev teams, so they'd fire them the first chance they got if they did that. As for leaking it out anonymously... I'm sure Disney has their ways to find and deal with anonymous leaks, considering how there's probably been plenty bigger projects that could have lost them some business if it was anonymously leaked early.

Then again, take this post with a bit of salt, as it is possible that the way I think could be biased in favor of the dev team, being a developer myself.

When people say, "It's just a game," they are expressing their opinion. I don't think they are trying to state a fact, they are simply attempting to speak their minds but do not know how to be respectful in doing so. A person who says this may actually appreciate the designers' time and effort, they just don't think people should be speaking of VMK as a life-altering matter. I definitely see, though, how people can be a little too bold in their responses.

When people say, "It's just a game," they are expressing their opinion. I don't think they are trying to state a fact, they are simply attempting to speak their minds but do not know how to be respectful in doing so. A person who says this may actually appreciate the designers' time and effort, they just don't think people should be speaking of VMK as a life-altering matter. I definitely see, though, how people can be a little too bold in their responses.

That's how it is here, at least (Which, of course, is why I like this fan site so much better than others. Ironically, most of my friends are on the other sites.) However, not everyone in the VMK community is that way. The fan site I originally posted this on, for example, is chock-full of people who are always going "Face the facts: It's just a game" or "Just a game. Sad, but true. Get over it." (Even more ironic was the fact that the place was actually rather enjoyable before the announcement. Then all the cool people just kinda disappeared.) I've even come to the point where I've practically been called a fool for believing that video games can easily be considered a form of art (Which, I might add, is not an original opinion of mine. The debate on such a matter goes waaaaaaay back in the history of games.)

Aye, but I'm ranting, and getting somewhat off topic. I agree, there are a fair amount of people here that come off a bit more intimidating and/or disrespectful than they intend (From both sides of the argument. I've been guilty of it myself more than once). However, just that little change in phrasing, just adding those few little words, can sometimes go a long way in diverting hostility both coming in and going out.

Aye, I see what you're trying to get at here. Personally, I still think it's the big execs and not the actual dev team to blame, for the following reasons:

1) Judging by how Disney treats the games themselves, I doubt the big execs care enough about their dev teams to actually tell them the reason (Other than Seth Mendelsohn/Yavn, assuming he didn't leave VMK when some people think he did. But he's most likely under some sort of contract [or surveillance :P] to make sure he doesn't tell.) For all we know, they're in the same boat as staff: They were just told one day "Oh, by the way, pack up all the stuff in your office, we're shutting down your project." Heck, they may have even been fed the same "50th promotion" lie we were.

2)Assuming they did know, they are all probably under some sort of contract so they can't tell. After all, VMK more likely than not closed down because of money, right? Think of all the business they'd lose if one of their OWN STAFF leaked out that the big execs were spreading lies! And, again, said execs probably don't care much for their dev teams, so they'd fire them the first chance they got if they did that. As for leaking it out anonymously... I'm sure Disney has their ways to find and deal with anonymous leaks, considering how there's probably been plenty bigger projects that could have lost them some business if it was anonymously leaked early.

Then again, take this post with a bit of salt, as it is possible that the way I think could be biased in favor of the dev team, being a developer myself.

I understand, you were curious and I was trying to stay as honest as possible. I am still shocked,confused, and ofcourse angered with the closing of vmk, that is/was my opinion at the moment and hopefully I will mature and learn to thank the creative team some day. It did surprise me when vmk_griffin was on vmk on the second to last day, how well he didn't know the players. No, I don't mean personally, you know, understand know the basic ways of the vmk players; The unspoken meanings of "moon" and "gloving".And that was just an example, their are some many things he didn't know about us. No wonder they didn't know what we wanted them to design, because we would just tell yavn and the hosts. Its sad that the entire three years that they have designed vmk, they never truly knew the people they were making happy.

When people say that, they usually actually enjoyed the game, they're just trying to look cool.

Ah Ill, I really do wish I could help you out, I've been running around so much that it's crazy! But you put forward some incredible questions! I agree 100%...and I would be able to back you up if I actually had time. My apologies!

When people say that, they usually actually enjoyed the game, they're just trying to look cool.

Who are you talking about, LordIllidan or me? I am 99.9% sure that LordIllidan is not trying to look cool he is trying to get his point across. I am not tyring to look cool also, I was answering the questions as honestly as possible. Yes I enjoyed the game, but I hated the game also.

Another question: Have any of you ever made a game before? Do you know how much time and effort it takes, how much of your very heart and soul you need to pour into your work to make a good game?

Just a quick question: Have you?

Just a quick question: Have you?

How can you of spent this much time repealing posts by Lord without ever reading any of his posts?

Just a quick question: Have you?

Been working on her for three years now (Most of which spent re-writing dialogue over and over until I come out with something I'm satisfied with). It's called Eternity's End, and it's a story about a demon hunter that refuses to accept fate, and the princess that falls in love with him.

I could PM you the link, if you'd like.

Ah I so wish I could read all the posts because I've often seen a few VMKFers make some good points, but alas, I'm currently strapped for time, ANYWAY, I think you made lots of wonderful points, although I find it unlikely that most of the people who this was directed at will take the time to read, because they DO seem to dislike opposing opinions...

So, something I hear a lot: "It's just a game." Not, "In my opinion, it's just a game..." nor "Personally, I think it's just a game." In other words, I hear a lot of people state this as fact, not opinion. If this has ever been you, let me ask you all something: Do you think yourselves some sort of almighty beings, who's very word is universal law? May I ask what status you believe you hold where you believe your word and your word alone is what defines an object? Were I to argue, mayhaps, that Disney movies inspired me to believe in miracles, and you were to argue "OMG THEY'RE NOT INSPIRATIONS THEY'RE CARTOONS," am I to take this as truth, and without argument?

Trying to fight it makes you more depressed. Its been proven

Another question: Have any of you ever made a game before? Do you know how much time and effort it takes, how much of your very heart and soul you need to pour into your work to make a good game? If you've ever said "Why don't you just appreciate the memories you had, and move on" while still clinging to the above opinion that it's just a game, do YOU appreciate how much time, work, and artistic vision the developers put into the game, despite the fact that you refuse to acknowledge it as art, inspiration, and a place where people made many friends?

I obviously reconize the effort that goes into a game which is why they had a really, really good reason to close it. They wouldent close such a great game without a unavoidable problem.

If you've said (as fact, not opinion), VMK was "Just a game" or "Just pixels," does this mean that, following the same train of logic, the Mona Lisa was just paint on a canvas, the Thinker was just a rock with a few niches in it, and Beethoven's Ode to Joy just noise?

I never said that.

Finally, if you've ever told... no, ORDERED people to simply "move on," or, even better, "Shut up!" or "Give up!", do you consider yourself above the First Amendment that the Forefathers of America so masterfully crafted and upheld? Do you consider your own voice so great and almighty, it has the right to silence others? Do you honestly believe that you have the right to tell people how you live their lives just because you don't agree with how they live it now, despite the fact that it doesn't affect you greatly in any way?

I think that is an exageration. we are trying to make you feel better.

Now its time for my question...

Do you really think that complainig about people trying to help you is going to bring the game back somehow?

I'm eager to find out.

Evnia this is the save vmk forum not the whoo vmk closed forum. ;)

Trying to fight it makes you more depressed. Its been proven

I think this falls under "skirting around the question," there.

Regardless, I've fought the idea that games are just a form of cheap entertainment and nothing more ever since I got into game development years ago, and I couldn't be happier on that front. I've really been able to turn my own games from cheap RPGs with little plot and cliche gag-based humor into real deep games with highly developed characters, an intricate plot, and gameplay that really supplements and highlights the characters and story.

Or, at least I will, assuming I ever get to the stage where I move things from my "Good ideas" folder to actual coding XD

I obviously reconize the effort that goes into a game which is why they had a really, really good reason to close it. They wouldent close such a great game without a unavoidable problem.

What was that? Money?

Bill Gates lost a ton of money on the Xbox, and he was still gutsy enough to make the Xbox 360. If he could do it, why can't Disney?

Granted, Gates is one of the richest people in the world, but he's also not one to throw away his business' money on a whim (His own private money may/may not be different, though)

I never said that.

:ThumbsUp:

I think that is an exageration. we are trying to make you feel better.

By telling us to give up and that there's nothing we can do? I think that calls for a change in approach.

Now its time for my question...


I don't recall ever complaining about receiving help. I mean, I definitely consider a lot of the Save VMK'ers here a lot more dedicated than I am, and praise them as such.

If you're referencing the pro-closure'ers, however... I still don't see how telling us to "Get a life" when we already have one, and are choosing to use it as we wish is considered "Help."