I am trying not to cry, for my sons. I am trying to stay strong.
VMK closes tomorrow. I have told them and prepared them and done everything I can think of to soften the blow.
“Save VMK Mommy!”
“Tell them not to close it Mommy”
“Email them Mommy”
“Call them on the phone Mommy”
“Sign the petition Mommy”
“THEY CAN NOT CLOSE VMK MOMMY!”
They are frantic, they are upset, they are crying.
And there is nothing I can do. I have emailed, I have signed petitions. It’s still closing tomorrow.
Super hero Mommy, who’s magic kisses can make any hurt go away in an instant, who can do anything in their eyes can’t make them keep VMK open.
Our avatars are family. We say goodnight to them every night at bedtime.
I don’t want to hear it was a promotion that has ended. We should be grateful that it was kept open longer than it was meant to. We’ve got all these wonderful new pay to play games you can go play instead.
I have played those games, they are terrible and boring. I went and made a fairy when it opened and I never go back to it because it’s boring, I’ve seen the preview of the new stuff to come and I am far from being excited. Pirates and Toontown are about the violence, I’m not interested. I don’t want to be a car or penguin thank you very much.
I want to go to Disneyland and be able to experience the variety it has to offer. Today I can be a pirate, tomorrow I can be a jungle explorer and the day after that I can be a space person. I never get bored because there is always something new and exciting to do and see. It’s not always the same day in and day out.
I feel insulted and put down. I feel angered at the treatment my family is receiving by the people in charge. I loathe the narrow minded thinking and marketing. All boys want to be pirates and cars and all girls want to be princesses and fairies and there is nothing else in the world. What a crock! That’s all you’re willing to offer them. You think it’s “safe” and makes you money. My children want to be Mickey Mouse and astronauts and friendly monsters and have an imagination thank you very much!
I will not move on to any of your other games. Why would I? So you can take that away from my family whenever you want to in favor of whatever thing you think my kids should be obsessed with and liking this time? I will never let you hurt my children as badly as you have by closing VMK.
I am crying when my boys aren’t looking. I am saving pictures as fast as I can so they still have something to hold on to after it’s taken away.
This has been 3 years of our lives that we’ve played, made friends, spent time together as a family. Ripped away like it was nothing. We mean nothing.
Tomorrow I plan to spend the entire day on VMK with my boys. We will stand by the statue of Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse, our heroes and role models, until they close the doors on us and cry as our hearts break into a Million Pieces as VMK is ripped away from us, shattering our dreams.
Thank you for giving us the wonder and love that is VMK.
There are no words to politely express what I want to say for taking VMK away.

All I can say is amen.

I am there with ya. You are definitely not alone.

- hugs -

All I can say is amen.

Amen to that. Trust me, you're not alone. Such a dumb decision.

That's so touching, I started crying myself.
I had to read it twice.


If only the Disney Executives set money aside and focused on the real meaning of Disney.

I feel your pain... my daughter sleeps with the flats I made her. Our family is crushed. I too cry when they are not looking. This picture I took pretty much sums it all up.

http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/data/1101/medium/IMG_4980a1.JPG

I feel your pain... my daughter sleeps with the flats I made her. Our family is crushed. I too cry when they are not looking. This picture I took pretty much sums it all up.

http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/data/1101/medium/IMG_4980a1.JPG
Wow, that's a powerful picture.


By the way...
Is that edited, or did our Avatar Flat Project just go to waste?!
Oh please say it's edited.

Wow, that's a powerful picture.


By the way...
Is that edited, or did our Avatar Flat Project just go to waste?!
Oh please say it's edited.

I asked a Disneyland Cast member to do that.. he happily did so ( in his defense... I don't think he had a clue what he was sweeping) it is a real photo. We have plenty of flats (they go everywhere with my daughter)

Very moving letter. I cried, too. Disney just has no idea what they are doing.

http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/data/1161/Wanted_but_not_by_Disney.jpg (http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12026)

autoalice, Just that first paragraph, almost made me cry. No, I am not an emotional rock, but still. "mommys" are magic. I bet your kids don't see why you can't make it better. Mommys are supposed to make everything better. It is just so sad and touching at the same time.

VMK has been a HUGE part of my life for these three years. I probably will cry when it closes, though i will try not to. I just can't beleive this. This story really opened my eyes to what is really happening.

I agree with the last paragraph, as my dad and I have been talking about vmk is the most creative game out their that no other game has, you can be at the parks and be whatever you want to be, from a pirate to a princess to a explorer to just a kid at the park.

Oh my, what a touching letter. It doesn't seem like they even think about this stuff

I'm in the process of trying to make an entire VMK paper doll set for my boys and that's making them feel a tiny bit better, but it's not the same and they say so.
They've been drawing pictures and writing letters all day hoping to save VMK. I'm ready to scan them all and email them to everyone on the list to show them who they're killing.
Thank you for the kind words and support, I promised myself I'd stay strong.."it's only a game"....but it's so hard.
Tomorrow is going to be miserable :(
I've started sending that letter to some of the email addresses along with the personal information I obviously won't post here (kids' names and ages and such).

http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/uploads/14348/alipicon1.gif

I hope tomorrow never comes.

http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/uploads/14348/alipicon1.gif

http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/uploads/14348/alipicon1.gif

I hope tomorrow never comes.

http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/uploads/14348/alipicon1.gif


I think we are all dreading tomorrow.

Us too, as a Family shared all you have when now there is only me and my VMK family :(
I will be standing at the Hub by your side and holding hands and hearts as our tears fall and the tomorrow dawns and ends sadly.....
I can not even Believe it!
But remember the magic lives in each of us if we believe and share! We and ours will live on with a song and a dream still alive in our hearts....


Remember as Roy Disney said...."We Shot Old Yeller!"....
But then Disney got rid of Roy too!! ?

I think we are all dreading tomorrow.
That's an understatement ;)

I ended up sending my letter to a handful of people on the email list. My son also wrote a letter that I scanned and included. Well, OK it was more me adding my letter to his.
He wrote an amazing letter on orange construction paper to "Dear VMK People".
I want to hope it will change the world.

That's an understatement ;)
You stole what i was gonna say.. LOL

Amen, Alice. You have a standing ovation from this Family.

The early days of Disney, under Walts' guidance, we learned to believe in dreams and that Disney was a magical place where anything is possible. If we could dream it we could make it happen. If we believed hard enough, dreams really do come true. Now is a different time. We are told that those concepts are not reality. We understand this, but their business is not reality, it's entertainment. We come to this place for a brief respite from reality. A place where both young and old can imagine and share that experience across generations, geographical boundary's, socio-economic conditions and yes even preconceived notions about personal attributes. This place is symbolic of the ideal that Disney should strive for. It mirror's the parks and in doing so it mirrors Walt's vision. The failure of management to recognize this is not only frustrating but undermines the confidence of a loyal fan base. Everything that we've come to believe about Disney and it's philosophy is no longer true. Money is not just a necessary ingredient in their corporate success, it now appears to be the driving force behind their entire decision making process. I do no begrudge them profitability. The ability to make money and reinvest it back into the corporation has contributed greatly to their success. But, to do so at the risk of alienating the consumers of your products is not only bad management, It's bad business. So now I leave behind that magical relaxing place called VMK and return to reality. Maybe I should be thankful to Disney for the reality check, but I assure you that I'm not.

Alice, you have always been a great speaker in your posts, but that, that sums everything up. I think that you should ask people to send it to Disney, after they get a million copies, the idea will firmly be in their clouded heads.

I am trying not to cry, for my sons. I am trying to stay strong.
VMK closes tomorrow. I have told them and prepared them and done everything I can think of to soften the blow.
“Save VMK Mommy!”
“Tell them not to close it Mommy”
“Email them Mommy”
“Call them on the phone Mommy”
“Sign the petition Mommy”
“THEY CAN NOT CLOSE VMK MOMMY!”
They are frantic, they are upset, they are crying.


I am very upset myself that VMK is closing. But I cannot imagine how it feels to be in your shoes right now. :Unhappy: Sending hugs and pixie dust to your family.

I feel your pain... my daughter sleeps with the flats I made her. Our family is crushed. I too cry when they are not looking. This picture I took pretty much sums it all up.


Just reading half of your expression, Alice, made me think. You're right. This is hurting so many more people than helping.
That flat picture gives me an idea.

:wave2:Plaster VMK [flat] photos around Disneyland/World and on the back of them, put, "Save VMK." Bring some tape.

Amen, Alice. You have a standing ovation from this Family.

The early days of Disney, under Walts' guidance, we learned to believe in dreams and that Disney was a magical place where anything is possible. If we could dream it we could make it happen. If we believed hard enough, dreams really do come true. Now is a different time. We are told that those concepts are not reality. We understand this, but their business is not reality, it's entertainment. We come to this place for a brief respite from reality. A place where both young and old can imagine and share that experience across generations, geographical boundary's, socio-economic conditions and yes even preconceived notions about personal attributes. This place is symbolic of the ideal that Disney should strive for. It mirror's the parks and in doing so it mirrors Walt's vision. The failure of management to recognize this is not only frustrating but undermines the confidence of a loyal fan base. Everything that we've come to believe about Disney and it's philosophy is no longer true. Money is not just a necessary ingredient in their corporate success, it now appears to be the driving force behind their entire decision making process. I do no begrudge them profitability. The ability to make money and reinvest it back into the corporation has contributed greatly to their success. But, to do so at the risk of alienating the consumers of your products is not only bad management, It's bad business. So now I leave behind that magical relaxing place called VMK and return to reality. Maybe I should be thankful to Disney for the reality check, but I assure you that I'm not.

This is very well said!

The philosophy now isn't about creating or even maintaining a classic, it's about creating a cash cow...excuse me....Franchise. Classics need to be "updated" to cater to the "younger, hip, cool kids". I can't say how old my sons are obviously but they are in the younger ages, within some of Disney's prime demographics. The funniest story I will remember that sums so much up....We were in one of the shops in Disneyland and they had a mountain of plush. My 2 boys, who were even younger as this was a couple years ago, could name and were absolutely in love with older "classic" characters and was having to ask who all these new ones were. There was a cast member there watching their excitement and joy at who they were finding in that plush mountain. He was surprised that they went straight for those older characters and not the newer ones kids their ages usually go straight for and even more surprised when they didn't know who they all were. He said it was a pleasant change and basicly said "bravo" (not that word of course LOL) Disney has to make money to keep running obviously, but they're looking at it the wrong way. They are alienating us "older folk" who grew up watching Mickey Mouse Club and all of the animated movies and World of Disney and went to the parks as often as their parents could afford to take them. They are setting our children up and encouraging them to have the "gimme the IT thing of the week right NOW and I'll just throw it away for the newest thing next week" mentality.

So far Disney has ruined everything for kids, I mean its gone so far with money I bet they wouldnt even care if Mickey Mouse ripped off his head to show what he really is. Disney is insane and thats all I have to say.

This is very well said!

The philosophy now isn't about creating or even maintaining a classic, it's about creating a cash cow...excuse me....Franchise. Classics need to be "updated" to cater to the "younger, hip, cool kids". I can't say how old my sons are obviously but they are in the younger ages, within some of Disney's prime demographics. The funniest story I will remember that sums so much up....We were in one of the shops in Disneyland and they had a mountain of plush. My 2 boys, who were even younger as this was a couple years ago, could name and were absolutely in love with older "classic" characters and was having to ask who all these new ones were. There was a cast member there watching their excitement and joy at who they were finding in that plush mountain. He was surprised that they went straight for those older characters and not the newer ones kids their ages usually go straight for and even more surprised when they didn't know who they all were. He said it was a pleasant change and basicly said "bravo" (not that word of course LOL) Disney has to make money to keep running obviously, but they're looking at it the wrong way. They are alienating us "older folk" who grew up watching Mickey Mouse Club and all of the animated movies and World of Disney and went to the parks as often as their parents could afford to take them. They are setting our children up and encouraging them to have the "gimme the IT thing of the week right NOW and I'll just throw it away for the newest thing next week" mentality.

You are absolutely correct Alice. Thank you! so much for sharing your personal stories to illustrate that point.

There is a reason that the old movies are classified by the title "Timeless Classics". They are not a fad, but encapsulated themes and values that transcend time. The triumph of good over evil, the strength of the human spirit to overcome adversity and the power of belief are just a few of those examples. These are powerful messages that reach down through your heart and into your soul. There's also the aspect that they have an appeal to the innocent child that still resides in all of us. It is that part of us that inspires faith and hope for a better world. It helps us overcome adversity in our own lives and look forward to better time and a brighter future. It is what we have come view as the magic of Disney. It is not a commodity that can be bought or sold, it's something that resides in the heart. This is something that we embrace strongly and want to share with future generations.

Walt recognized the potential and strength of these values and messages. In doing so he not only created timeless classic movies but captured the hearts of people worldwide. It created a huge dedicated fan base that has come to respect and admire the Disney brand. It has given Disney a sense of invincibility. Virtually everything they touch or market turns to gold. With this heightened level of status comes expectations that the principles and values that the company was founded on will continue into perpetuity. It is a huge mistake for them to take their audience for granted.

VMK's demise is a great opportunity squandered.

I, too, am a mom who is trying to heal the broken heart of a child. After reading your post, autoalice, I subscribed to this forum just so I could post my story, too.

Disney has been in our family for years. We are DVC members, and we try to visit WDW annually.

DD11 has been playing VMK since Day 1. She had been waiting for weeks for it to open, and she jumped right in. She played everyday, and eventually I had to give her a daily time limit or she would have been on there non-stop. She has her Webkinz, too, but there is just no comparison to VMK.

The day she learned VMK was going to close, I couldn't figure out what was wrong. She had just turned on the computer, and minutes later she was in tears. When she told me why she was so upset, my heart broke. I knew how much VMK meant to her and what it would mean for her to lose it. I'm tearing up now just thinking about that day.

She refused to believe VMK would actually close, and she held out hope everyday. She wrote letters, posted messages, and continued to play the game like it would be there forever.

Until yesterday...

When they announced VMK would be closing on May 21, 2008, we thought it would be at 1 a.m., the normal closing time. So she set her alarm for 12:45 a.m. before she went to bed last night so she could be logged on for the final minutes. But she was too late. It wouldn't let her log on, and she thought it had closed forever. (ok, I'm crying now) She was crushed, and my heart broke again for her.

She woke up this morning and was so upset...until she found out that she had one more day. But tonight we will have to relive that pain all over again, and tomorrow when she comes home from school she's going to feel that loss. This is her first experience with a true loss. I know it's only a game, but she's only <young>.

Disney is supposed to be about dream making, not dream breaking. Shame on you, Disney.

I read that article that up on the LA times.
They want to move us all from VMK to one of their other, new, games before we get bored with it.
They are closing it to make room for things that appeal to a broader audience.
Disneyland park where you can have absolutely EVERYTHING they've ever made fit in ALL AT ONCE vs a game where you can be nothing but a pirate the ENTIRE TIME, or a Car the ENTIRE TIME, or a Fairy AND NOTHING ELSE. The games that are going to get stale are the new ones. There is only so much you can do with a fairy, movie tie in or not. It's finite, same with all the rest. What happens when you beat all the Cogs in Toontown...what then? Your game is over, your experience is over, you're bored.
They never marketed VMK as much as their new stuff, how are they to know it could not have done as well, if not better if they had marketed the heck out of it like the other stuff.

I read that article that up on the LA times.
They want to move us all from VMK to one of their other, new, games before we get bored with it.
They are closing it to make room for things that appeal to a broader audience.
Disneyland park where you can have absolutely EVERYTHING they've ever made fit in ALL AT ONCE vs a game where you can be nothing but a pirate the ENTIRE TIME, or a Car the ENTIRE TIME, or a Fairy AND NOTHING ELSE. The games that are going to get stale are the new ones. There is only so much you can do with a fairy, movie tie in or not. It's finite, same with all the rest. What happens when you beat all the Cogs in Toontown...what then? Your game is over, your experience is over, you're bored.
They never marketed VMK as much as their new stuff, how are they to know it could not have done as well, if not better if they had marketed the heck out of it like the other stuff.

You are so true, in VMK you could be all of that and more!

Amen, and its all happening in just about seven hours. Just seven. Thats it. Seven

I, too, am a mom who is trying to heal the broken heart of a child. After reading your post, autoalice, I subscribed to this forum just so I could post my story, too.

Disney has been in our family for years. We are DVC members, and we try to visit WDW annually.

DD11 has been playing VMK since Day 1. She had been waiting for weeks for it to open, and she jumped right in. She played everyday, and eventually I had to give her a daily time limit or she would have been on there non-stop. She has her Webkinz, too, but there is just no comparison to VMK.

The day she learned VMK was going to close, I couldn't figure out what was wrong. She had just turned on the computer, and minutes later she was in tears. When she told me why she was so upset, my heart broke. I knew how much VMK meant to her and what it would mean for her to lose it. I'm tearing up now just thinking about that day.

She refused to believe VMK would actually close, and she held out hope everyday. She wrote letters, posted messages, and continued to play the game like it would be there forever.

Until yesterday...

When they announced VMK would be closing on May 21, 2008, we thought it would be at 1 a.m., the normal closing time. So she set her alarm for 12:45 a.m. before she went to bed last night so she could be logged on for the final minutes. But she was too late. It wouldn't let her log on, and she thought it had closed forever. (ok, I'm crying now) She was crushed, and my heart broke again for her.

She woke up this morning and was so upset...until she found out that she had one more day. But tonight we will have to relive that pain all over again, and tomorrow when she comes home from school she's going to feel that loss. This is her first experience with a true loss. I know it's only a game, but she's only <young>.

Disney is supposed to be about dream making, not dream breaking. Shame on you, Disney.

{{hugs}}
I don't think anyone thought about what they've done to these children they're trying to woo to other games.

Smile thank you! for you sharing. I wish you and Alice, as well as all of the other parents out there the very best in coping with this situation.

Alice, again, you are spot on.

From my own experience I've watched my Granddaughters play. In the course of a single afternoon they were, gymnasts, rock stars, horses, dolphins, princesses and at times drama queens. Their imagination is limitless and they deserve a place that is not confined to a single focus. VMK fits that need while the other sites being promoted do not.

To listen to WDIG you would think that you cannot have a business plan without focusing your target audience to age or gender specific groups for marketing purposes. While that may help to a degree with ad revenue it is hardly their only option. Mr. Wadsworth only has to look at the historical evidence to see the dismal failure of Walt's Disneyland idea. Obviously, Walt had no concept of a business plan or he never would have created such a diverse entertainment package. Imagine, marketing to Families rather than to the individuals that comprise that family, whatever was he thinking?

In my opinion here is WDIG's marketing strategy. Let's diversify like a stock portfolio. If something fails, surely one of our other products will succeed, that way we hedge our bets and look like we know what we are doing. By eliminating VMK we migrate our audience to one of our other less desirable products so it looks like we are growing in numbers. Besides VMK was not really our project to begin with, and the disaffected fans have very few other options. We can charge monthly fee's for their membership and if we narrow the scope sufficiently we may trick them into paying for multiple accounts if they actually want or need variety.

Here is my message to them. I will not support your other internet worlds. First off, none of them are comparable to VMK on any level. Secondly, you've undermined my confidence in your commitment to your customers by withdrawing support for your game. That, combined with the rewording of your user agreement indicates to me that you will retain the option to do so for your other projects as well. Why would I ever submit myself or my family to such treatment again?

{{hugs}}
I don't think anyone thought about what they've done to these children they're trying to woo to other games.

Sadly I don't think they care. Truth is.. they are bored and want to move on. My day has been spent wiping tears (mine and my youngest) the day is only half over and to think of the heart break in store for all of us tomorrow morning brings more tears. - hugs- to all . pumpkin

I feel your pain... my daughter sleeps with the flats I made her. Our family is crushed. I too cry when they are not looking. This picture I took pretty much sums it all up.

http://www.vmkforums.com/gallery/data/1101/medium/IMG_4980a1.JPG
where did you get this picture?
I also think that what you said is true completely true.

where did you get this picture?
I also think that what you said is true completely true.

From an earlier post:

I asked a Disneyland Cast member to do that.. he happily did so ( in his defense... I don't think he had a clue what he was sweeping) it is a real photo. We have plenty of flats (they go everywhere with my daughter)

Sadly I don't think they care. Truth is.. they are bored and want to move on. My day has been spent wiping tears (mine and my youngest) the day is only half over and to think of the heart break in store for all of us tomorrow morning brings more tears. - hugs- to all . pumpkin
You don't think, I know. Ask somebody who works there what their favorite color is. Probably green.

By the way, great signature.

where did you get this picture?
I also think that what you said is true completely true.

I took the picture at DLR last week with a cast member.

It's been the toughest day today. We only have one computer so we've had to share and crowd around it.
I don't think I got screen shots of everything I wanted to.
The lag was terrible or I'd crash.
The worst part....I could only get 2 of our 3 characters together by Walt & Mickey at closing tonight. As if the kids weren't upset enough :(
OH NO! We just realized that all the songs the kids made in the mixers never got recorded...oh yeah...tears just got worse...
I hate whoever thought this was a good idea to close the game!

It's been the toughest day today. We only have one computer so we've had to share and crowd around it.
I don't think I got screen shots of everything I wanted to.
The lag was terrible or I'd crash.
The worst part....I could only get 2 of our 3 characters together by Walt & Mickey at closing tonight. As if the kids weren't upset enough :(
OH NO! We just realized that all the songs the kids made in the mixers never got recorded...oh yeah...tears just got worse...
I hate whoever thought this was a good idea to close the game!

Omg Alice! My heart breaks for you again. Me and my youngest cried ourself to sleep she asked me what I would miss most and I told her hanging with her and my friends and being able to walk right down the middle of Main St. U.S.A. anytime I wanted. Then with lots of tears she said... I am gonna miss my conversations with Yeti and Esmeralda talking about the portal and poor gator "I tried to give him a break" who knew that anyone actually read what the NPC said. She did and she views them as her friends and will miss them dearly.

Omg Alice! My heart breaks for you again. Me and my youngest cried ourself to sleep she asked me what I would miss most and I told her hanging with her and my friends and being able to walk right down the middle of Main St. U.S.A. anytime I wanted. Then with lots of tears she said... I am gonna miss my conversations with Yeti and Esmeralda talking about the portal and poor gator "I tried to give him a break" who knew that anyone actually read what the NPC said. She did and she views them as her friends and will miss them dearly.

{{hugs}} for both you and your youngest.
I am running out of words now(me..run out of words!). I think it's finally settling in the rest of the way.

My kids loved the NPCs as well LOL I always had to read them the words (youngest is too little to read and the oldest is still just learning)

Well, tomorrow came and just like in Pumpkin's picture, we were all swept into the trash. So so sad~!

I keep looking at TheRealPumpkinQueen's signature because it has been the only thing to make me laugh today.

I can't believe your commitment and love for the game. I really hope you and your family can find something as good as VMK, but sadly, that, is impossible. In This Year of a Million Broken Dreams, we must understand that the Big People, think they can squash the little people. Little People in the thousands work together, but when the big people discourage the little people, little people, run. That was our problem, that is why we didn't save vmk, people gave up to easily. But One Thing I found out. We Are Locked in History, in a Book, The Kingdom Keepers. So we will never forget our Virtual Magic Kingdom, whenever I, we, read this story, we will find VMK in there, and WE can remember.

'The best memories are the memories we remember, and cherish the most'

I can't believe your commitment and love for the game. I really hope you and your family can find something as good as VMK, but sadly, that, is impossible. In This Year of a Million Broken Dreams, we must understand that the Big People, think they can squash the little people. Little People in the thousands work together, but when the big people discourage the little people, little people, run. That was our problem, that is why we didn't save vmk, people gave up to easily. But One Thing I found out. We Are Locked in History, in a Book, The Kingdom Keepers. So we will never forget our Virtual Magic Kingdom, whenever I, we, read this story, we will find VMK in there, and WE can remember.

'The best memories are the memories we remember, and cherish the most'

I haven't been online very much the last few days(real life things to do as well as internet outage on top of it) so I'm only now getting a chance to read the forums today.
It was less about being a computer game we were committed to, it was Disneyland and Disney we had the connection, love and committment for. *That* is what was most special to us about VMK. We're not moving on to any other games. The non-Disney games don't have that connection for us and the Disney ones now have a place of disdain after what they've done with VMK. We found VMK on our first trip as a family to Disneyland when the kids were still pretty young. It was our way of spending time in the parks when we could not. It was a way of celebrating and playing with the movies we all loved (we have the entire collection of classic movies on DVD and watch them often). I always knew when the kids were playing with the characters because they kept changing them into Tron clothes LOL
We didn't give up, we're not giving up. I'm sure your comment about not understanding our commitment and love isn't made as a bad thing and I'm not taking it that way, heck, even if it is I'm still not ;)