Well, what can I say. A couple weeks of playing PO sure has put VMK into perspective for me. On a whole, VMK is such a stale, mismanaged game centered around fruitless tasks and social status. In my opinion, there is very little challenge or fun to be had on VMK. "Playing" on the Kingdom often feels like monotonous work instead of what it should be; an entertaining distraction.

I mean, who really enjoys riding the dark rides over and over again just to get a shot at a pin that will you give you a small shot at another pin? Who likes lining up and waiting in absurd queues to play a "game" that involves filtering into a teleporter and hoping you were lucky? The Pirates of the Caribbean mini-game is really the only one that offers high replay value and a decent amount of credits.

VMK is filled with lag, bugs, and crashes, and while PO may share some of those problems right now, VMK has been around almost two and a half years and has run out of excuses. At the rate PO has evolved, I don't see those being issues in the future like they have been on VMK.

In my experience with both games, the caliber of player in VMK also seems more likely to be petty, immature, and greedy; this probably isn't helped by the fact that the only clear-cut objective is to collect, which is usually a pretty lonely task. In Pirates Online, it's important that you regularly work cooperatively as a team to succeed. There's a much greater sense of community on Pirates Online.

VMK does offer more freedom in certain areas, such as being able to re-design your look whenever you like with many clothing options, and in being able to create guest rooms and quests. Other than that, I don't see any advantages and, at least for me, the Kingdom just took a very distant back seat to the new game in town.

What are your thoughts?

Sadly, I have to agree. VMK does not offer much as a "game." It is all about collecting the rare items to basically work your way up the social ladder. I think the problem here is that VMK was meant for kids to go online and interact with each other in a different way, instead of just IMing. Pirates is meant to be a game that requires strategy and cooperation with other to complete, obviously geared towards the older gamers.

Yes, I agree too. The game is about collecting. (mostly) Anyways, if you look at the Trade Forums, they have the most posts and threads. It speaks for itself. But, VMK is also a game to play with friends. You can meet new friends and hang out, but there isn't really much to do.

I basically look at VMK as less of a game and more of an advanced "chat room". It's fun and entertaining (to me anyway) but very basic. POTC is as an Action Adventure game. To me it's like comparing apples to oranges, except I do get your point about the bugs, lag, etc. in VMK vs. POTC. It's frustrating that after 2.5 years there are still all these issues.

Umm... yeah... @_@ pirates online is stupid to meh! rotfl im not gonna play that game.. O_o i mean i like thoes movies.. but i dont like them THAT much!
i would rather go on vmk and play pirates with meh friends...
and i dont even understand this pirate online thingy.. LOL so i dont really care!

I basically look at VMK as less of a game and more of an advanced "chat room". It's fun and entertaining (to me anyway) but very basic.

that's what vmk is to me too! i like it the way it is.. going on and chatting with friends and talking to random people and becomeing friends!
rofl it's what i do with most of meh free time... when im not with my real friends or doing something important.. vmk is not my life tho. 0_o i feel sorry for people like that!.. LOL!

I really can't compare the two.

POTCO is an action, high-graphic, game. VMK is a more social game.

The following are my opinions, and my opinions only.

I agree - comparing the two is unfair.

POTCO is a game in the sense that most of us think about it. There are rules and objectives. Follow the rules, meet the objective, and you "win".

VMK is a game in the sense that the word is used in simulations. It does not have rules in the same sense, and does not have any formal objectives. There is no way to "win" in VMK.

Given that, and given that I haven't played POTCO, I also have no interest in playing it. I don't like games where someone else tells me what I need to do, or even what I'm limited in doing. The world of VMK is very flexible (not as flexible as I'd like, but still very flexible). Sure, if I want to make trading and collecting my objective - I can. If I want to use it as my art studio - I can. If I want to create games for others to play and get prizes - I can! Acting? Rides? Entertainment? Talking to people? I can!

I dunno... I guess I'll just take creating and inventing over pillaging and looting. :D But thats just me - hope you enjoy POTCO!

Ive never agreed with someone more.

Let's not forget the missed target dates, most recently the Card Game

From Yavn Speaks 9/27
"We rolled out the Basic version to give you a chance to try the game, in the next few weeks we'll introduce the Advanced version of the game!"

Check if you like, that's the last post Yavn has made... It's still there! LOL
That was over a month ago. then again some would say 4 weeks is a few.....

Just sayin'

I believe you to be accurate in the total view you have stated, however, you have forgotten where you have been. For those "petty, immature and greedy" souls and oh by the way, the way you must have been at one time, is still a very good source of inexpensive entertainment in which to build your social status. VMK is the medium you have been a part of for a few years and it will be around a few more to the delight of many of us. Be carefull to tread lightly on the past as many times it comes full circle to be in your face some where in the future. I am so glad that new worlds help expand a individuals sense of being but bare in mind not all are ready for the new world that has us in the VMK now in your back seat.

i think they are half and half

I agree with sunnyskye and ssm914. VMK is about friends, games, and collecting and building. People join, but don't get the full experience of it unless they play it for a long time. People join and walk around and think, "Well this is really boring", but they haven't seen all the items that come out every friday, they haven't played long enough to become friends with people, and play pirates and mansion.

That's my opinion.

-warner

Potc pwns vmk but toontown pwns potco

The following are my opinions, and my opinions only.

I agree - comparing the two is unfair.

POTCO is a game in the sense that most of us think about it. There are rules and objectives. Follow the rules, meet the objective, and you "win".

VMK is a game in the sense that the word is used in simulations. It does not have rules in the same sense, and does not have any formal objectives. There is no way to "win" in VMK.

Given that, and given that I haven't played POTCO, I also have no interest in playing it. I don't like games where someone else tells me what I need to do, or even what I'm limited in doing. The world of VMK is very flexible (not as flexible as I'd like, but still very flexible). Sure, if I want to make trading and collecting my objective - I can. If I want to use it as my art studio - I can. If I want to create games for others to play and get prizes - I can! Acting? Rides? Entertainment? Talking to people? I can!

I dunno... I guess I'll just take creating and inventing over pillaging and looting. :D But thats just me - hope you enjoy POTCO!

Very good points priz!

I play both just as much, but like you said, VMK doesn't have things you have to do.

If I want to play a quest on VMK, I can. If I don't, I don't have to.

On POTCO if you want to get an upper-level you have to complete missions (quests).

As someone stated above, POTCO is for action and adventure while VMK is for relaxation and socializing. Now when I guess you say you can do this in POTCO, you can, but it isn't geared towards that. VMK is basically a chat room and if anyone here has played POTCO, they know it gets annoying when they want to chat in the game.

Also, remember POTCO is a game that you have to pay to play, unless you want the "Test" version. VMK is free and you are getting quite a lot for paying nothing at all.

I wouldn't know a POTCO from a pothole. But you all have forgotten how addicting VMK is. VMK addicts can't adequately compare VMK to another game... because they're VMK addicts! They're not in their right mind. Trust me on this. Every morning for 2 ½ years, I've risen from my bed with a leap, greeted the day with a smile, and said to myself, "Today is the day I quit VMK!"

Yeah... good luck with that.

Ricks (who is definitely going to quit VMK... tomorrow)

Yesterday, I downloaded and gave POTCO a go. Big mistake. It took almost half an hour for Port Royal to load, and that was only the tutorial! Now I know you may be thinking that my computer is slow, but Pirates Online is just too much hassle for me. I enjoy VMK because, like Priz and slinkyman have said, people can do whatever they like. Sure there's certain rules, but they're just there for our safety.

As a few have said theyre two completely different games. At least I think so...

Yes vmk is more childish, but its also really alot of fun if you just want to relax and act like a kid again. I really enjoy it! Its also great for those who cant actually go to disney. sure it has its problems, but nothings perfect!

the when it comes to Pirates Online I think its more for the older ones who enjoy action and adventure. thats all i really have to say on it, even though i never really gave it a chance...

All in all, i prefer vmk but that is just my opinion :wave2:

I enjoy both, but I enjoy pirates online way more better. VMK seems to be the same old thing over and over while pirates you can adventure sink ships, do quest's, unlock new weapons and all that. Just my opinion

VMK and POTCO were created and intended for different age groups.
You can't compare two different types of games.
If you don't like one- it doesn't mean you should put down the other.

I'm just saying that VMK does not have as many features to POTCO, and compared to POTCO, there isn't a point to the game. But I still like both!

I dont really want to play " Pirates Online "
You have to lie about your age, if your my age. And VMK is based on disney, and people like me, who dont go to disney every month! Like to feel the magic of it on the computer ♥

I agree i haven't exactly played the game yet, but, I would rather do what i want to do instead of doing what i have to do. And i think i like the pirates game on VMK better. But thats just my opinion

I enjoy both, but I enjoy pirates online way more better. VMK seems to be the same old thing over and over while pirates you can adventure sink ships, do quest's, unlock new weapons and all that. Just my opinion

True, but what happens when you complete all the levels on POTCO? I just started to play this, but i'm sure the levels aren't infinite. I look at VMK as a long term game, they'll always be coming out with new things (as long as it's open).

Saying that, the programmers probably will come out with new things for POTCO, just like video game companies come out with new games. I can't really compare the two. I look at POTCO as a video game and I look at VMK as...I really don't know what I look at VMK as, but I do know it can get boring, but it can always get exciting again when the right month comes along. They are on equal ground for me right about now.

True, but what happens when you complete all the levels on POTCO? I just started to play this, but i'm sure the levels aren't infinite. I look at VMK as a long term game, they'll always be coming out with new things (as long as it's open).

Saying that, the programmers probably will come out with new things for POTCO, just like video game companies come out with new games. I can't really compare the two. I look at POTCO as a video game and I look at VMK as...I really don't know what I look at VMK as, but I do know it can get boring, but it can always get exciting again when the right month comes along. They are on equal ground for me right about now.

That's true, but at different times one game will be higher then the other in my book. Right now vmk seems boring, but next week it may be the best game I've played. You just have to wait and see what comes. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Well, the levels can get really long. I played for about a month, several hours a day, and on the entire game, I only got 6% of the way through. And you will have fun sinking ships and doing other things once you complete the game. (If that is possible.)

So it's like Toontown if you get killed or something, you can get your Laff points back at headquarters or something?

I tried pirates 10 minutes ago i gave up it was in my opinion dumb, i think its because im too used to vmk. I don't like games where u have to win, its just annyoing whre u have a goal and another goal and another so on

Pirates Online is a good game but in order to fully enjoy it you must pay for a subscription. They let you join for free but allow you to level to three and thats it. You can't do much at level 3 now can you? I was a die hard WOW fan but became very bored with it since the main point was to keep leveling up by doing quest over and over again. You would one day be able to join raids when you were powerful enough but to get there you had to do this. At least with VMK you can talk with your friends and get to them very easily,The staff have some type of event everyday which relates to the theme for the month, you have four mini-games where you can challenge others or three others which are in the arcade for you to enjoy, best of all you can use your imagination to build incredible game rooms, show rooms, ride rooms, and anything else you can think up. In pirates you play a character and move around the world you can't build anything. I am currently working on a secret project room which im sure everyone will enjoy since I have never seen anything like it before in the game. Remember your imagination is the key in VMK and what's the best part of this game? Well its free of course :)


xwing (Used to be cl_xwing) before they ended the program.:wave2:

personally, i like vmk better. pirates is not my kind of game. all that walking all over to find things and kill people, eh, no thanks. so vmk may be lacking bit lately with new things, but its a free game. what do we expect? i think some of the things that have done in the game are incredible. again tho, im just not into *video game* games. give me a room, some furniture, and let me change my clothes and i'm happy lol

Comparing the 2 is like apples and oranges.

As stated, POTCO is an actual action/adventure game.

VMK, while called a game, really isn't a game. It's mainly a form of social interaction. Yes, you can play all byt yourself if you want to, but it's still mainly a form of social life.


As for the graphics, bugs, etc.

Please remember that POTCO is ultimately a pay to play game. They are going to make more money off of it than they will from little ol' VMK which no one pays for. So they are going to spend more money on dealing with issues on POTCO than they will for VMK.

It's just like the old saying. You get what you pay for.

Personally, I still prefer VMK.

POTCO is better then VMK hands down. You're actually in first-person mode, instead of seeing the whole room.


Another good thing about POTCO is that the game doesn't end... They keep adding stuff like Toontown.

Yes, but with all that lag? I have to re-start the computer if I even try to log in the game!

Does anyone know how to change the screen size for POTCO online, because my friend is having trouble. The screen where you make your character is so big that she can't click the "next" button.

Mrgoopy, when I sign on there is no lag.

Does anyone know how to change the screen size for POTCO online, because my friend is having trouble. The screen where you make your character is so big that she can't click the "next" button.

Mrgoopy, when I sign on there is no lag.

What about when your playing the game?

She can't play the game, because she can't get past the character making process.

Because it has so much lag.

No....it's because her screen is so big it blocks the 'next' button.

It really depends on what you want out of an online game. I like Pirates but I'm not going to get into it as much because you have to pay and I just don't do that with online games. I'd rather go buy a game somewhere.

With Pirates, if you pay, it's a lot better. You have to wait in a (short, for now) queue to get in if you have basic and I find that ridiculous. And since you have to pay, there's sort of a limit set to it if you have basic access. That's what I like about VMK, no one is ahead on another like that.

The game, in it's fullness, is fun though. I tested it in beta with unlimited access and it's great. If action and adventure is what you're after. :pirate:

Comparing the 2 is like apples and oranges.

Right. Both of them sweet fruits that grew from the same tree and are commonly made into juice.



I agree - comparing the two is unfair.

I wouldn't say it's unfair if you're judging them as products of Disney Online, and comparing which one did better at finding a market, giving it's audience what it wanted, and developing something worth spending money on; whether that's through a paid subscription or cross-promotional items. Although POTCO is in it's infancy, I think it's done a much better job of giving it's intended audience what it wanted. It's entertaining and immersive, quite like a classic Disney animated movie, which by the way, you'll note does not give you the freedom to create the scenes as you go. You obviously can't create a new ending or design a different costume for Sleeping Beauty at each act break. And yet, it is fully capable of unlocking your imagination, taking you to places you hadn't dreamed of, and inspiring your adventurous spirit.

Walt Disney was a master at developing these kinds of unforgettable experiences and the world loved him for it; they never saw it as a lack of freedom, but an opportunity to live through a character and see the world from a completely new perspective. It may be a stretch to some, but I think that's exactly what you can do in a game like Pirates Online. In my opinion, I think if Walt were to get into the computer game business, he'd be much more apt to create something like Pirates; a vast and imaginative story that you actually feel like a part of -- as opposed to a rather cheap imitation of his theme parks run by people who don't know the first thing about Disney magic or customer service; where creativity is possible but not encouraged as it should be, and where the sterile and uninspired objectives of buying and collecting are always at the forefront.

I don't like games where someone else tells me what I need to do, or even what I'm limited in doing.

(In other words, you don't like games. I don't know a single game without rules, which are also known as "limitations" to any honest player.)

The world of VMK is very flexible (not as flexible as I'd like, but still very flexible).

Flexibility in a game that you applaud for it's creative freedom seems like it would let you rotate a furniture item 360 degrees. If you check many of the items released in the last year or two, you'll discover that it's a 2-way stop. Can it really be that difficult to add a couple more angles? Flexibility, to me, would mean allowing people to have responsible conversations without worrying about being fore-armed by a 300 pound ###. While I realize VMK is a children's game, and many words are at risk for abuse, there are literally thousands of harmless words that aren't added and not for any noble cause. If you can, please point to the logic of adding "tiara" but not "tiaras". If you're going to take the time to add "whisper", how about taking 4 extra seconds to add "whispers, whispered, and whispering"? It boils down to laziness and/or not considering the guest, and it happens time and time again. I could also go on about unnecessary limits when it comes to issues like game rooms, quests, and gender-specific costumes. VMK does not represent or promote flexibility in the slightest. If people find ways to make the best of what they're given, then more power to them. But just because someone finds a way to make a beautiful sculpture out of a hunk of clay, don't be so quick to credit the clay.

VMK is basically a chat room ... VMK is free and you are getting quite a lot for paying nothing at all.

On the one hand you're saying VMK is basically a chat room, but on the other you're saying we get quite a lot without being charged a fee. I know a lot of free chat rooms and messaging services. Obviously people don't play VMK solely to chat; that's simply one of it's features, and really, it's not even that accommodating. I can think of a million better places to have a conversation. I'm sure in most cases, it wasn't the chat that drew a player to the game; it was the game that drew them to the game. Chatting with friends was an after-thought. I can also promise you that if VMK offered nothing but chat, instead of mini-games and a chance to climb the social ladder through buying, selling, and trading, membership would drop off dramatically. Anyone who believes otherwise is kidding themselves. And so, if it is widely viewed as more than a chat room; if it viewed as an actual game and if we are supposedly getting a lot more than chat; shouldn't they do a better job at supplying fun and interesting gaming aspects? Many of the fixes wouldn't require spending more -- just thinking bigger.

If you don't like one- it doesn't mean you should put down the other.

Of course not. You should put it down on it's own merits; sometimes it just takes something new to put those merits (or lack thereof) in perspective.

True, but what happens when you complete all the levels on POTCO? I just started to play this, but i'm sure the levels aren't infinite. I look at VMK as a long term game, they'll always be coming out with new things (as long as it's open).

The creators/producers/parties in charge, have announced that there will always be new content added to the game. It's reasonable to assume that this will include new levels, new quests, new objectives, new items, etc. I'm sure they'll do their best to keep it fresh; otherwise they'll be losing some of their most loyal, paying customers. In fact, it's that need to consistently improve itself that excites me so much about POTCO's possibilities and it's shelf-life. I see it as having a much brighter future than our virtual kingdom, that seems to be growing more stale and less attended to with each passing month. And sure, VMK will continue to churn out new items in the Emporium as long as it's open, but it's not whether or not there is new stuff; it's whether or not that new stuff peaks anyone's interest. I don't know about you, but the potential of an entirely new quest with new objectives, strategies, and rewards is far more interesting to me than a new color of crate or Santa Hat.

Remember your imagination is the key in VMK

And so is keeping yourself entertained in a padded jail cell. I'm all for creativity from the players -- I just think VMK should do a better job of picking up the slack on its end.

Except where quoting someone else, the following are my opinions and my opinions only.

First of all - let me point out that I think we actually agree on what sounds like one of your fundamental points - that VMK Management has utterly failed.

I'm just not sure that how you come to that conclusion is entirely fair.


I wouldn't say it's unfair if you're judging them as products of Disney Online, and comparing which one did better at finding a market, giving it's audience what it wanted, and developing something worth spending money on; whether that's through a paid subscription or cross-promotional items.


It still seems unfair to me. It is like comparing "Expedition: Everest" and "Illuminations: Reflections of Earth". Sure, they're both attractions run by the same division of Disney, but thats about where the comparison ends. The target audience of both are different, the delivery method is different, scheduling and timing are different, long and short term objectives are different, and they've had different amounts of time to be enjoyed by people.

Similarly - so has VMK vs Pirates.

Don't get me wrong - I think you're making some valid points and comparisons. But overall the comparisons seem a stretch to me.


Although POTCO is in it's infancy, I think it's done a much better job of giving it's intended audience what it wanted.


I think this, and many other aspects, are easy to judge since its in its infancy. Back in the Beta and just-post-Beta days of VMK, the same sense of entertainment, discovery, and excitement were still filling the game. We saw VMK full of promise, and new stuff and new items were coming out at a decent and interesting clip. There were broad promises of other things to come, and we were saying things like "they have to keep coming out with things to keep people interested and driving people to the parks".

POTCO has stumbled early on as well. From everything I heard (and I'll admit, I just kinda watch from a distance), the first Beta was an even bigger disaster than VMK's. It was late, and they missed their big release target - launching with the movie. They recovered quite nicely, however, which shows a good management and dedication from the company. But its early - we'll see how they follow through on promises as well.


In my opinion, I think if Walt were to get into the computer game business, he'd be much more opt to create something like Pirates; a vast and imaginative story that you actually feel like a part of -- as opposed to a rather cheap imitation of his theme parks run by people who don't know the first thing about Disney magic or customer service; where creativity is possible but not encouraged as it should be, and where the sterile and uninspired objectives of buying and collecting are always at the forefront.


I hate to invoke the "what would Walt do" thought, because he was so unpredictable. To be honest - I think he would not have done either POTCO or VMK. Both are terribly limited examples of their genre that are years (decades, in some ways) late to the game, and he would have been disappointed by both.

POTC is essentially a franchise based on a hit attraction that they're trying to turn into some well established media - movies and MMORPG games that people will pay for. It was targeting a specific set of fairly well understood demographics. There is little innovation on any of these, which certainly made their job easier (but not easy).

VMK is more complex. It was trying to provide a more "free play" environment, hoping to drive people to various Disney franchises and partnerships. There has been some work in this field in the past, but it wasn't nearly as developed as more traditional games. It was targeting "tweens" - where Disney has some good history, but is still a poorly understood group in terms of general demographics. All of this made it less focused and more difficult to develop for. And as these problems became more evident, VMK's management seemingly had problems adapting.

What do I think Walt would have made? I imagine something more like Second Life - where Disney would have created a core set of "attraction" games (such as something based on pirates in general), but also let people program their own things.


I don't like games where someone else tells me what I need to do, or even what I'm limited in doing.


(In other words, you don't like games. I don't know a single game without rules, which are also known as "limitations" to any honest player.)


Are you calling me dishonest? :) I prefer to think of them as either "world physics" or "game mechanics", of which the "rules" play only a small part. Sure, every game has restrictions based on its mechanics (and VMK certainly does!), but really good games know how to develop game mechanics that are entirely flexible.

Consider, for example, that when the modern crop of MMORPGs came out, they were flexible enough that people used them to write movies. Thats certainly going beyond the rules that the developers imagined, but still not really having limitation.s

But there are plenty of games that come closer to meeting my criteria. Consider the card game Fluxx - which doesn't even have an objective when the game starts, whose rules change constantly during the game, but which has a solid set of game mechanics that give its players a wide set of abilities during game play. Consider chess, even!

Consider also the Civilization series of video games. Sure, there are some broad criteria for "winning", and there are limitations in how you can use your units and the terrain you work with, but within the broad physics of the world there are many many things you can do on a single turn or during an entire game.

POTCO seems much more limiting to me than these games. It is unfair of me to have pre-judged it, I'll admit, but the general objective seem to me to be "go on this mission to level up", and thats just not my kind of game.


Flexibility in a game that you applaud for it's creative freedom seems like it would let you rotate a furniture item 360 degrees.
If you check many of the items released in the last year or two, you'll discover that it's a 2-way stop. Can it really be that difficult to add a couple more angles?


Why limit yourself to 360 degrees? :D There are still game mechanics to consider. Do I think they can be improved in VMK? If you've read my posts, you know I think they can. Do I think many of their items are reasonable compromises, yes, I do.


Flexibility, to me, would mean allowing people to have responsible conversations


This is a no-win situation for Disney, and (as you noted) one they've handled quite badly. They have to make some limits (just as we do on the forums), or their reputation as a family friendly game will seriously erode. However, the history of censorship has never ended up well for the censor.


It boils down to laziness and/or not considering the guest


I'm not sure its "laziness" so much as "bad management". Management seems very focused on very small specific things in VMK and not looking at the "big picture". Theres been a huge history on VMK about trying to fix a small problem, ignoring the bigger problem, and ultimately making things worse all around.


But just because someone finds a way to make a beautiful sculpture out of a hunk of clay, don't be so quick to credit the clay.


Just the opposite! Despite VMK management (and staff) doing their best to make VMK dull and lumpy, it is the real sculptors (the players of VMK) who are making something great out of it. We wouldn't be able to do that if VMK wasn't as flexible as it was. You seem to think that its the staff who are the sculptors - they're just the people that give us the clay.

Since I haven't played Pirates, I'm curious how good its clay is

During land combat, can I do the following

Switch hands with my saber and fight using either (or both) hands?
Kick them in the stomach?
Throw sand in their eye?
Duel (and stab) them with a hot poker?
Jump on a plank and send them flying into the air?
Have my first mate smack them over the head with a bottle?

During sea combat, can I do the following

Sneak aboard their ship during the night and dump their cargo overboard?
When being chased, lower my sails, drop my anchor, turn my rudder, and do a 180 degree turn allowing me to crash into my opponent and board them while they're totally surprised? (I have no idea if this is physically possible, but it sounds like a cool thing for pirates in movies to do.)
Train a pack of dolphins to attack your opponents ship?

Can I draw up fake treasure maps and, while the officers are off getting the treasure, steal their ship?
Can I pretend to be a 1st level deck swabber and stage a mutiny?
Can I get a tattoo that says "Bluebeard is a wimp"?
Can you train parrots to sing "I Am The Very Model of a Modern Major General"? Hey... for that matter... can you take on an apprentice and trick them into working for you for extra time?



Of course not. You should put it down on it's own merits; sometimes it just takes something new to put those merits (or lack thereof) in perspective.


I think there were better examples before POTCO came along. Both ToonTown and Club Penguin have more of a history, and provide examples of how management have done better (and worse!) Both are more geared towards a similar age level as VMK. And CP is closer to the "free play" environment that VMK has.

I think you're also discounting the biggest merit to me that VMK has - its players. You mentioned teamwork as being crucial in POTCO, and I think thats great. You seem to discount the great wealth of things that other players bring to VMK, and instead focus on how staff and management are messing up in the game. To me - there is the biggest difference. Management can mess up both games, in theory, but it only seems like players can save it again in VMK.

i don't like pirates onlne..

Wait - -
Do they even have an age level? Because i was trying to play this pirate game once and you had to be 13& above to play. Not in my age level, heh.
But then i found vmk . . :D
Well i prefer VMK anyways. ♥

You've made some fine points as well. I know you're unhappy with VMK's managment; anyone on these forums who bothers to read posts longer than two sentences (I think there's 7 of us) should have no trouble piecing that together. :) Of course the only reason I commit so much of my critiquing prowess to the subject is because I do care. I love the idea of having an easily-accessed version of our beloved Disney parks to visit and play in. I'm just so disheartened by how they've treated the concept and how it's lacking what really makes Disney magic; attention to detail and customer service.

I especially enjoyed this section:


Since I haven't played Pirates, I'm curious how good its clay is

During land combat, can I do the following

Switch hands with my saber and fight using either (or both) hands?
Kick them in the stomach?
Throw sand in their eye?
Duel (and stab) them with a hot poker?
Jump on a plank and send them flying into the air?
Have my first mate smack them over the head with a bottle?

During sea combat, can I do the following

Sneak aboard their ship during the night and dump their cargo overboard?
When being chased, lower my sails, drop my anchor, turn my rudder, and do a 180 degree turn allowing me to crash into my opponent and board them while they're totally surprised? (I have no idea if this is physically possible, but it sounds like a cool thing for pirates in movies to do.)
Train a pack of dolphins to attack your opponents ship?

Can I draw up fake treasure maps and, while the officers are off getting the treasure, steal their ship?
Can I pretend to be a 1st level deck swabber and stage a mutiny?
Can I get a tattoo that says "Bluebeard is a wimp"?
Can you train parrots to sing "I Am The Very Model of a Modern Major General"? Hey... for that matter... can you take on an apprentice and trick them into working for you for extra time?


Hey, with creative juices like those, you should be able to find some pretty easy scab work when the Writers Guild strikes. Or has the disaster already been averted? I haven't taken my daily dose of Hollywood gossip yet.

I'm not implying Pirates offers the same type of freedom that VMK does; I mentioned earlier where I think VMK excels and what I appreciate about those aspects. With that said, however, in a way I actually feel more free in Pirates. I suppose it's because we have so much more room to breathe; there's more to explore, more to do, and while I definitely enjoy having creative freedom, it's also nice to have some fun and challenging objectives laid out for you. (That's something I rarely find on VMK.)

Now if Pirates was a game where you only had one objective at a time, and were unable to do anything else until that particular task was complete, I would most likely share your sentiments. The nice thing about this game is that you can simultaneously be running many quests/objectives/missions. You can decide which one to focus on, or do bits and pieces of several different ones as you hop around. You can also put the objectives on hold while you level up your combat, voodoo, or sailing skills. While the text bar is not quite as accomodating as VMK's, it is possible to sit and chat with friends; and with a vocabulary you can actually be proud of, you might accidentally stumble into an engaging conversation. Or at the end of a busy day ripe with ravagaing, you can just kick back, have a pitcher of chilled grog, and relax with a little high-stakes poker. I'm not saying it wouldn't also be nice to be able to train a pack of attack dolphins or procure fake treasure maps for the more gullible pirates, but until POTCO realizes that their tapestry would be a far richer one upon sewing in those pieces, I'm satisfied.

And by the way, if you are ever able to find a game with the kind of unlimited options you detailed (outside the pages of Ender's Game), let me know. I'd be more than willing to drop a monthly 10 spot on that kind of innovention.

I know you're unhappy with VMK's managment; anyone on these forums who bothers to read posts longer than two sentences (I think there's 7 of us) should have no trouble piecing that together. :)


Heh.. :D

But yes, clearly I blame VMK's problems (and yes, it has many problems) pretty squarely on its miss-management. What I firmly believe, however, is that VMK's biggest redeeming value is its flexibility and the imagination of its players that are keeping it alive.

Its different from other games - but thats difference is what makes it good.


Of course the only reason I commit so much of my critiquing prowess to the subject is because I do care. I love the idea of having an easily-accessed version of our beloved Disney parks to visit and play in. I'm just so disheartened by how they've treated the concept and how it's lacking what really makes Disney magic; attention to detail and customer service.


I agree. Disney is unique that its biggest critics are also its biggest fans. VMK follows that trend.

I don't mean with my reply to say that POTCO is bad, or that VMK is perfect - just that comparing the two does not do either justice. Let's put it this way - even if the POTCO management were in charge of VMK, I'm not sure they could manage it correctly. The two of them need to be managed differently.


Hey, with creative juices like those, you should be able to find some pretty easy scab work when the Writers Guild strikes. Or has the disaster already been averted? I haven't taken my daily dose of Hollywood gossip yet.


The strike is a disaster? Ahem.. anyway...

Well, the funny part of that list is that most of the items were taken from movies, with quite a few of them being taken directly or indirectly from POTC! And thats kinda my point - some screenwriter came up with most of those ideas. I'm just a game player - I should be able to do them. But most such games are rather limited in their actions because the game developers didn't come from the same storytelling background.


in a way I actually feel more free in Pirates. I suppose it's because we have so much more room to breathe; there's more to explore, more to do, and while I definitely enjoy having creative freedom, it's also nice to have some fun and challenging objectives laid out for you. (That's something I rarely find on VMK.)


I can certainly appreciate that. Having more complex non-linear goals as something to do is certainly appealing. (Look at the list of games I gave in my last post, and that describes all of them.)


I'm not saying it wouldn't also be nice to be able to train a pack of attack dolphins or procure fake treasure maps for the more gullible pirates, but until POTCO realizes that their tapestry would be a far richer one upon sewing in those pieces, I'm satisfied.


And I can appreciate that. They have given you a pretty expansive world to play in and discover - and thats certainly a good component. As long as there is more to discover, I don't think the game will grow stale.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think that VMK's "world" is also pretty expansive. Perhaps the number of rooms isn't that huge, but I can still find new ways to do things with the items we have. And that kind of discovery is what appeals to me.


And by the way, if you are ever able to find a game with the kind of unlimited options you detailed (outside the pages of Endor's Game), let me know. I'd be more than willing to drop a monthly 10 spot on that kind of innovention.

Ok, first a little light-spirited nit-pick. "Endor's Game" would be a game about one of the following:

a planet in the Moddell Sector, most noted for its forest moon which was used for a time by the Empire to help develop their second Battle Star.
an ancient Cannan city
Middle-Earth, as told from an Elvish perspective


What I think you're talking about is "Ender's Game". An interesting item to bring up here since one of the aspects about Ender's approach to the "game" was his non-traditional thinking. In both the Battle Room game and his later Game, he demonstrates how he could go beyond the specific rules that were set and make the game something of his own. This, to me, is what VMK is. :D

To answer your question, however, you'll find that kind of thinking in most MUD based games or something like Second Life. They fundamentally allow the players to change the very fabric of the game itself. The problem is that most aren't even vaguely goal-oriented except in goals that the players themselves make. I'll admit that I haven't taken part much in goal-oriented games, so there may have been great progress here that I'm totally unaware of, but I think bridging this gap is still poorly explored territory for game developers.

in my opinion, i dispise that game. there's way too much violence, and you pay for it while as another person said vmk is free and there's much more choices. in potco you can't just chill out, make a little house, or chat with friends very often. instead you're killing skeletons and... well you get what im saying. it's just too violent to be comapared to a pure disney site. vmk is way better, imho.

Ok, first a little light-spirited nit-pick. "Endor's Game" would be a game about one of the following:

a planet in the Moddell Sector, most noted for its forest moon which was used for a time by the Empire to help develop their second Battle Star.
an ancient Cannan city
Middle-Earth, as told from an Elvish perspective



Y'know, I thought that looked a little off when I typed it. Blame my recent ride on Star Tours. The shrill, robotic voice of Paul Reubens is one that's hard to shake.

in my opinion, i dispise that game. there's way too much violence, and you pay for it while as another person said vmk is free and there's much more choices. in potco you can't just chill out, make a little house, or chat with friends very often. instead you're killing skeletons and... well you get what im saying. it's just too violent to be comapared to a pure disney site. vmk is way better, imho.

Well, saying that Disney doesn't have violence is something of a misnomer.
There has always been violence in Disney. It's just traditionally clean violence.
Just watch some of the early short films and movies like Sleeping Beauty and Treasure Island.;)

It's just a sanitized form of violence.


Right. Both of them sweet fruits that grew from the same tree and are commonly made into juice.
OK. How about and apple and a pea?

Both games have different targets.
POTCO is limited to a certain age group. It's more for teens and adults. Although VMK states that it's target group is 8-14, any one can play.

POTCO is more like a video game that you buy, but a little more dynamic. You have quests to complete. That is basically all you do there. Yes, you can somewhat chat with people you meet there, but it's very limited.

VMK is a lot more dynamic. You can choose to use it for social purposes. Meet and make new friends and do nothing but hang out with them. Or, you can use it for your collecting purposes.
Or you can use it to only play games or quests. There's always tons of guest made quests or games going on.
Or you can just be a trader in the game.

The thing is, POTCO has a "point". You go there for action and adventure. You ultimately play it to get to an end.
With VMK, there is no "point". There is only the point that you make of it.

POTCO is more like a video game that you buy, but a little more dynamic. You have quests to complete. That is basically all you do there. Yes, you can somewhat chat with people you meet there, but it's very limited.

When it comes to limited chat, VMK definitely takes the ### cake.

VMK is a lot more dynamic. You can choose to use it for social purposes. Meet and make new friends and do nothing but hang out with them. Or, you can use it for your collecting purposes.
Or you can use it to only play games or quests. There's always tons of guest made quests or games going on. Or you can just be a trader in the game.

With the exception of guest-made quests and trading, I could easily argue that you can do all of those things on Pirates.


With VMK, there is no "point".

The End.

Does anyone know how to change the screen size for POTCO online, because my friend is having trouble. The screen where you make your character is so big that she can't click the "next" button.

Mrgoopy, when I sign on there is no lag.

Yeah you have to change your screen resolution size. I don't know what you're running but the numbers have to be smaller for it to fit.

I have to agree with Claw.
VMK seemed like a wonderful idea when it first opened, but it changed. The goal does seem to be to acquire as much as possible, and learn to not speak proper English, (as if this wasn't a big enough problem without VMK).

Pirates Online gives you real quests and real opportunities to actually talk and make friends. I realize the limited chat in VMK is to protect small children, but for anyone else it's extremely limited. And when you look around in Pirates, you can feel like you are in the movie, because the island depictions are that good. It's still new and has it's bugs, but I'd really rather spend my time in Pirates these day.

VMK is just so frustrating.
What I would like better than both the games would be a melding of the elements, the intense graphics of Pirates set in Disney Parks. I would never leave!